Help to identify maker

[MortUK]

Hello,
My name is Peter
I am trying to identify the maker of a guitar.
Here is the information I have

On the tail end it says "BL 1848"
This is the signature on the inside


Body Length = 17"
Upper bout = 9.25"
Waist = 7"
Lower Bout = 11.75"
Body depth at tail = 3"
Body depth at waist = 3 3/16"
Body depth at neck joint = 2 1/2"
Scale length = 23.5"
Neck at body joint = 1"
Neck at nut = 3/4"

I would be grateful of any help.
Thank you very much
Peter

Bitte vergib mir meine Unwissenheit für nur Englisch sprechen.

Hallo,
Mein Name ist Peter
Ich versuche, dem Hersteller einer Gitarre zu identifizieren.
Hier sind die Informationen habe ich

Am hinteren Ende heißt es "BL 1848"

Body Länge = 17 "
Upper bout = 9,25 "
Taille = 7 "
Unterbug = 11,75 "
Korpustiefe an Schwanz = 3 "
Korpustiefe in der Taille = 3 16.3 "
Korpustiefe bei Halsgelenk = 2 1 / 2 "
Mensur = 23,5 "
Hals bei Körpertemperatur Joint = 1 "
Hals am Sattel = 3 / 4 "

Ich wäre dankbar für jede Hilfe.
Vielen Dank
Peter

[MortUK]

Here are 3 more pictures.

[Heidrun Eichler]

Hello Peter,

thanks for the pictures. The guitar is very interesting. May be it was made in 1848. Is it possible for you to read what stands under tho small log: "Markneukirchen" or "Neukirchen" and next only "Sachsen" or another word too?

We found in an old guitar from 1860 under the neck joints the name of the builder. It is possible that the name of the builder is B L ...

Where did you find the guitar?

Best regards
Heidrun

[MortUK]

Hello Heidrun,

Thank you for your reply. It belongs to a friend who just wants to find out about it, out of interest. It is not possible to read what is under the small log, I think "Sachsen" is the old word for Saxony and I agree with you about the district "Markneukirchen" where a lot of instruments were made.
Here are some suggestions from other people.

Suggestion 1
"Could it be a signature of Buchen or Lechben"

Suggestion 2
I don't think the luthier inscribed his initials on the exterior of that guitar. Most likely an owner, perhaps the first, did. it is my opinion that the bottom name is "Sachsen." It really isn't possible to tell what the top name is with that cleat in the way, but the last four letters are definitely "-chen". Now, you see that little squiggle just above "Sachsen"? That's the word "in" (same in German as it is in English). So, the legible text is "-chen in Sachsen". Now, as it so happens, Sachsen is a region in southeast Germany, known in English as "Saxony," which includes the cities of Dresden and Leipzig. So this builder lived in the Sachsen region, and he learned guitar building from the Stauffer school (Austrian), a crossover which was quite common back in those days (Once again, I'm reminded of CF Martin, a German who studied guitar building from Stauffer). I'm a little rusty on my 19th C German history, but as I recall, Germany was a rather loosely held confederation during much of the 19th C, so this would help to explain why the luthier wrote "in Sachsen" rather than "in Deutschland".


This is how far we have got in identifying the guitar.


Thank you for your interest and help

Peter

[Heidrun Eichler]

Hello again,

Sachsen=Saxony

Today we have postcodes to differentiate the towns with the same names. Germany has severeal districts and one is Saxony (till today). When you have the same towns in Saxony then you write: Adorf/ Vogtland or Adorf/ Erzgebirge.
There were so many Neukirchen in the 17 and 18 century that they wrote in the instruments:
Neukirchen by Adorf in Saxony.
Thats why I'd like to know if you can read more than ...chen. I'm sure that it is Markneukirchen. The lettering is very snappy (?), and the squiggle could be over the "u" or the "M". You should dismanting the cleat and have a look .

Markneukirchen is in Sachsen, not so big as Leipzig and Dresden, but in the 19 and 20 century in instrumentmaking more important than this big citys. Guitarmakers went from Markneukirchen to Vienna so Christian Friedrich Martin ( he was born in Markneukirchen and left his hometown in 1833 to go to America because of problems with the violinguild) and some other famous guitarmaker also.

Can you send some more pictures of this guitar (you can send them to my Email), may be we can find something out.

Best regards,

Heidrun

I hope you can understand all.

[MortUK]

Hello Heidrun,

Thank you for the information.
Here are more pictures







I hope this helps
Regards
Peter